Flesh and blood or myth.

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:59 pm

Thanks, I openly admit I am not a historian/

And as far as the web page, you can PM it to me if you want.

But I still feel like why too many dragons fit into the "dragon like" area. Just because something has a snake head or something like that people just call it a dragon. I personally fit "serpents" and "dragons" into different piles, they may have some type of connection to eacher, either real or through myth building, but to me are not the same.

(sorry I don't fee like spell checking this post)

Dariune · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:25 am

Thats ok, neither am i. I, like you, just asked questions. I am sure there is plenty you know about this subject that i dont.

I will PM you shortly.

In regards to the geneology of the snake and dragon. I both agree and disagree.

I think the dragon evolved as any other race does. I think the legends and myths of dragons started out as legends of super natural snakes. Of course as the tales spread and deformed the snakes, grew wings or legs and some of them, through the power of voice, were granted special powers such as breathing fire or a killing gaze.

I think all of these creatures are dragons. However as time moved on the legends became more and more individual, granting the beasts their own seporate names such as the Wyvern, Drake, Basilisk or Dragon.

Therefore these creatures share the same roots but are not the same creature. They are all of the Draconian family and therefore someone could be excused for naming them a dragon. But in actuality the Hydra (for example) is not a dragon in the same way, the dragon is not a Hydra.

That is all just my opinion however, and im sure there are many who would disagree.

Falconer · **Posted:** Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:50 pm

Could you send me the site too? TY

Personally, I think that Dragon is a class, and such species as the Wyvern, the European Dragon, the Hydra, etc. all fit in it.

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:51 pm

I thought of another two types of dragons I dislike in their use as "real" dragons.

1: Divine dragons. These are normaly one example of dragon kind, and most are "gods".

2: Shapechangers. I really hate when they are used as evedince of dragons. Though most of these fit into #1 I still keep it as another choice.

I'll expand on this after a while.

Falconer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:45 pm

I also dislike the idea that dragons can change into humans. I mean, c'mon. Leave the fantasy novels at the door.

Corva · **Joined:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:05 pm **Posts:** 1657

Don't you mean in the RP forum.

Falconer · **Posted:** Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:10 pm

You know what I meant. :roll:

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:26 pm

My bother for the shapechanging dragons is more at the "is the dragon it's true form?" question than anything.

Dracosd · **Joined:** Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:38 am **Posts:** 2

I may have found some reference to dragons in the "Book of Ebion" but it was a rough translation from Arabic. It might have some significance but i dont know. For now im going to do some more research on the book and come back.

Dariune · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:13 am

Oh a fellow researcher.

Im not aware of the book you are researching into.
I tend to find the best places to find unbiased aproaches into the dragon is to look at books which research literature based on the time of the dragons legend.

For example, if you are researching Fafnir or Grendel, the best place to look is books that delve into the creative writing, and talesof the time. In reading between lines and indeed reading the actual lines there is a lot of very interesting conclusions to be drawn.

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:18 pm

Another good book to check out (if just to check through his bibliography) is John and Caitoin Matthews "The Element Encyclopedia of Magical Creatures". They have a number of years of work in this books, but it is a collection of a number of creatures not just dragons. But is does have a number of odd connections there. And as I said it has a great bibliography.

Silentiea · **Posted:** Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:12 pm

How common is that book? Will I find it in a public library, for example?

Dariune · **Posted:** Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:53 am

I personally find a mix of general books and specific books are best.

For instance, if you are looking into the dragon Grendel from the Beowulf story then i would search books like "Mythology" by C.Scott Littleton as well as searching for more specific books such as The Medieval Dragon: The Nature of the Beast in Germanic Literature by Joyce Tally Lionarons which goes into far more detail.

And so a mix is the best way to cross reference dragon infomation.

Thats just me though

Silentiea · **Posted:** Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:29 am

Maybe I'd just read Beowulf again.

Maybe not.

Dariune · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:29 pm

Obviously if your researching Grendel that is a good idea. But other anthropologists, Mythologists, Pshycologists and Historians will have different views and will have discovered different things about a text or myth.

Therefore my reccomendation is of course to do your own research, but to benefit from other peoples research as well.

vampirehunter42 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:16 pm

I thought of another couple of books you should check out. The works of Joseph Campbell, his works are on how different myths connect to each other around the world. Like the "child hero becoming a knight", and other things like that. Here is an amazon link to one of his works.

Amazon Link

Fixed thread stretching
Edited by: Tempest

Dariune · **Posted:** Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:43 am

Wow a very good find. Just shame about the price though :wink:

Corva · **Joined:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:05 pm **Posts:** 1657

Got to bring the thread up to stop it dying prematurely.

Silentiea · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:22 am

If you follow Vampirehunter's philosophy, you might look for the works of Carl Jung, if only to get a background on the idea of Archetypes.

Dracosd · **Joined:** Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:38 am **Posts:** 2

Another place i looked was for info were cults and some books that have a liitle info are by H.P. Lovecraft. but the book of ebion it turns out it was a dream er nightmare i had, sorry. :oops:

Just Wondering · **Posted:** Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:27 am

[quote="Falconer"]Apparently my sarcasm isn't very good.

And for really good proof, check out the Bible. In Job 41, God describes one of his creations: Leviathan, thought to be a sea monster. Really, I ask you. Check it out. Who else do you know who can breathe fire?[/quote]

Hi all, back after a year and a bit I was going through this topic and I came across this post.

Not only is that very good proof, but the bible does mention by name Dragons - 22 times in the old testament and 12 in the new testament. Obviously some creature did exist ages ago. (Modern versions of the bible have the word dragons taken out as the 'scholars' are unable to come to grips with them)

Here is an interesting resource: http://www.bibleufo.com/crypto2.htm

And another good one mocking 'scholars' who don't believe that dragons existed. Interestingly enough its titled Dragons real or Myth: http://www.kjv1611.org.uk/Dragons%20%20 ... 20Myth.htm

Corva · **Joined:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:05 pm **Posts:** 1657

Draconic_Chronicler said he was writing a book about Dragons being angels.

Flesh and blood or myth.

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